The harder you work, the higher you raise your AQ Threshold. Don't shy away from challenges, embrace them to raise your AQ!
Dr. Paul Stoltz is an expert on adversity and resilience. He has studied adversity for over 35 years and written multiple books on the topic. His research shows that everyone faces adversity, but how we respond determines our success.
Paul developed the concept of the "Adversity Quotient" (AQ) to measure how well people handle difficulties. A high AQ means greater resilience and ability to turn obstacles into opportunities. Low AQ leads to dependence on others. AQ impacts performance, autonomy, and achievement.
Paul aims to equip people to strengthen their AQ. He provides concrete ways to minimize downsides of adversity and maximize the upside. His methods are rooted in extensive research and data across cultures globally.
Paul views adversity as timeless and universal. His book on AQ was a bestseller in China 20 years after publishing. He customizes his training for companies facing different challenges - whether growth, recession, or culture change.
A high AQ immunizes people against anxiety and worry. They become more response-able to handle anything quickly. Paul wants people to harness adversity, not just cope. At the top AQ levels, people look back gratefully that adversity occurred, as it led to growth.
Paul has grown his business for 36 straight years without salespeople, through word of mouth and repeat clients. He surrounds himself with smart people and empowers regional teams globally. He "eats his own dog food" - using AQ training inside his company first. This ensures his solutions are validated.
Paul aims to create optimal workplaces where people thrive as their best selves. He injects life into the hours we invest at work to make them meaningful. His passion is seeing the deep, enduring impact, not being motivational. AQ applies across all cultures and creates positive ripple effects.
Paul views himself as lucky to do this work and enrichment of lives is his core purpose. His own adversity has been health issues faced by his wife, who embodies high AQ resilience. Each night she applies the principles to life with MS. Despite medical improbability, she is a picture of vitality, teaching and helping others.
Rather than setbacks, Paul frames difficulties as challenges to overcome and grow from. Adversity is the substance of life. Without some adversity, life would be boring. AQ allows continuing to advance and perform miracles during high growth and opportunity. Paul aims to equip people for the journey ahead, whatever it may bring.
The difference between adversity and annoyance is subjective. Our perception of the event's magnitude (impact & importance) determines where it falls on the scale.
It's all relative. The same event can trigger a 9 for one person and a 3 for another. While past events can give an important perspective.
You often hear how cancer alters a person's perception on the adversity vs. annoyance spectrum. When you are fighting cancer, the gas line at Costco is hardly considered a hardship.
Your connection with the person who is interpreting the event high on the scale will likely increase the importance to you. I liken this to empathy. It's not uncommon for a client to get really anxious about an event, while their anxiety is objectively hardly justified, it's what matters to them - and therefore, it must matter to me (or I'll likely lose them as a client).
When it comes to relationships, Paul suggests posing the question 'on a scale from 1-10, how serious is this situation?' I think that when we score it, we can often diffuse the anxiety associated with it.
Paul uses the analogy of 'cloud seeding' to convey the need to inject a little more adversity into our comfortable and predictable lives. The storms of life will come, sure enough - and we can't avoid them. But to put ourselves through some drills in advance of the real deal can prepare us to weather the real adversity with more grace.
Liken it to firefighters who rarely sit around the firehouse waiting for the phone to ring. They are constantly doing drills so that when the call comes in, they can be fully prepared to respond.
If you feel like you're not living up to your potential, a little cloud seeding may be in order.
Consider that taking small risks (and winning), ultimately lead to confidence to take big risks (and win big). The problem with dreaming is that we often jump straight to the outcome. It's when we are confronted with the reality of the work required that holds back most of us.
Dr. Paul Stoltz has built an impressive career as a multi-national bestselling author, speaker, coach, and corporate trainer. He's the CEO of Peak Learning, a firm that teaches individuals and organizations how to engineer resilience and thrive on adversity.
A self-proclaimed 'excavator of the human condition,' Paul has spent the last 40 years of his life revisiting a question he first asked his college professor at UCSB: "How do we know who wins?"
Paul proceeded to spend subsequent years answering this question. The answer may surprise you and is contained in a single word: Adversity. He considers adversity 'the ink' of human history. It's the core of everything that's come before and continues to propel us into the future.
Paul discovered that like IQ, each of us have an AQ (Adversity Quotient) number. Now widely referenced, Paul was the first to coin the term 'AQ,' ushering a new term into our lexicon.
When facing a setback in life, it can be hard to see the upside. Whether the challenges propel us forward or pull us down is up to each of us. What seems difficult at first becomes easier over time and the more often we are called to rise up and meet a challenge, the more resilient we become. When you see your AQ number rise, you'll have the confidence to take on even greater challenges. The next challenge is no longer viewed as something to avoid, but rather seen as another opportunity to raise our AQ.
Paul's book Adversity Quotient resonated with Oprah, who herself made the connection that her adversity became the fuel for her success.
Even after 40+ years, Paul is as passionate today as he was when he first discovered it. I wanted to learn about Paul himself, but the passion (dare I say obsession) for his work revealed that he's living to serve a purpose greater than himself.
Tip to inspiring writers: obsession is a common trait of the most successful authors.
We can't improve what we can't measure and Paul's mission is to show each of us that we have an AQ number, and once we know it, we can work to improve it.
Having a 'growth mindset' (as compared to a limited mindset) is key to reaching our potential and AQ gives us an objective metric to avoid falling into the comparison trap.
Improving your AQ is accomplished through Grit, which Paul wrote another book on.
While the threats we face today may be less severe, perception is reality and Paul's research reveals that we are experiencing greater amounts of adversity than ever before. While Covid itself has dished out an extra helping of adversity for each of us, what we learn from it will determine our AQ moving forward.
It's no coincidence that the most admired figures in history first endured a heavy amount of adversity. Rather than recoil and retract, they persevered and overcame - with the ability to face greater challenges that followed.
Answering the original question: 'Who fails and who prevails?' ultimately comes back to how well we handle adversity. It's a decision we must each make - to recoil or resist - to assert or endure - to react or respond. At the core of accomplishment lies a bedrock of adversity.
Perhaps the single greatest event of trauma at a national scale occurred on 9/11/01. It was like our generations Pearl Harbor, yet we didn't know we were at war... so in a way, I think it was more traumatic. Plus, many of us watched the events unfold in real-time.
I was at home preparing for a meeting when my wife was in the bed called me to come watch what was unfolding on live television.
At first, it was being reported as an accident. But then we watched in horror as they caught the second plan in real time. To witness is as it happened was something you'll never forget.
I think that it was a wake up call to many of us to revaluate how were were spending our lives.
Another big adversity that shaped my life was the financial crisis of 2007-2008.
It was then that I decided to leave corporation America. I recall being sicker than I ever had been. I was in bed for a month. I had little motivation to continue at my job... and because so much of my identity was connected to my job, I felt little motivation to continue with life. It was a bleak time.
When I told my wife I was ready to quit my job and start my own business.
Time is a Precious Commodity - No one knows how much time they have been given on this planet. Time is a precious resource that must be conserved, respected, and above all, used to your advantage. Your most valuable asset is your time. Spend it wisely.
Many People Don’t Have a “Life Philosophy” - While I think people are more introspective because of the COVID pandemic, it seems for the most part they are just too busy, are too worried, or don’t care to think more philosophically about their own life. My life’s philosophy can be summed up in a pretty simple mantra: Always Turn Bad into Good. Whenever something bad happens, I reflexively try to find a way to turn the negative into something positive. That’s what happened to me twenty years ago. What’s your life philosophy? If you can’t articulate your life philosophy, it most likely doesn’t exist.
Too Few People Fulfill Their True Destiny - I should explain this somewhat harsh statement. First, lots of people are actually fulfilling their destiny but they just don’t know it because it can be hard to recognize. Instead, they daydream about a greener pasture far off in the distance instead of becoming absolutely enamored with what they are doing today. Second, some people don’t have the wherewithal to fulfill their true destiny. For example, I’m continually approached by people who excitedly tell me they are writing a book. The first question I always ask them is how long they’ve been working on it and the answer is usually five or more years. I don’t want to be a killjoy but that’s not going to work. It’s very difficult to fulfill your destiny when you don’t approach it with conviction, sometimes bordering on obsession.
Success Comes in All Sizes - There’s so much fixation on Google and Tesla type of mega business success or becoming the next YouTube star that it seams the meaning of personal success has been somewhat diminished. I think you have to “chunk” your way to success one day at a time. I still take great pride in simple accomplishments… If I had said I was going to write a half-dozen books twenty years ago I would have failed miserably.
Pessimism is Good… Optimism is Better - While a pessimistic nature forces you to plan all the things that can go wrong, it is the spark of optimism that keeps a dream alive. Consider yourself lucky if have an optimistic friend or two who truly believe in you.
Defend Your Intuition - Your intuition is smarter than you think. You have to defend your intuition because the ideas it creates are subject too many forms of inward self-doubt and public ridicule (which hurts an awful lot).
Rather than resisting or fighting the pain of trauma or tragedy, consciously chose to view tragedy as an opportunity for growth, meaning, and connection.
Don't resist or argue with reality. Accept what has happened and look for the gifts within the experience. There is beauty and love to be found, even in the darkest times. Those responding to loss often want to resist it or believe it shouldn't have happened. But resisting only increases suffering. By accepting reality as it is, we open ourselves up to discover the infinite love, community, and space for growth that adversity contains.
Our mindset and perspective shape how we view situations and challenges. Constant negativity creates a fixed mindset while focusing on learning and growth fosters a growth mindset. To change our mindset, we must become aware of our habitual thoughts and consciously reframe how we describe events. This process takes effort but leads to resiliency.
Our unique life story and experiences make us who we are. By reframing the challenges and setbacks as learning opportunities that shift our path, we see them as pivotal moments rather than failures. Each challenge shapes our direction, though it may not feel positive at the time. With hindsight, we can reframe these difficulties as preparing us for future success in unexpected ways.
Reframing our mindset helps us grow through difficulties to uncover surprising potential. Our perspective shapes our path, so focus on possibility.
Scraps & Transcript
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An adversity quotient is a person's ability to manage difficulties and transform obstacles into opportunities. The adversity quotient is one factor that affects a person's success since it correlates positively with a person's performance.
A person who has a high adversity quotient will also have high performance. People without adversity quotients will always depend on others, especially parents, peers, and others. They cannot take initiative and struggle greatly when confronting challenges. In the end, adversity quotients also has an impact on the possessor's performance, autonomy, and achievements.
Where we are today is a direct reflection of our ability to overcome (or not) adversity. It's no coincidence that the greatest figures in history each endured a heavy amount of adversity. Rather than recoil and retract, they persevered and overcame. They conquered the challenge to emerge stronger and able to face even greater challenges ahead.
prepared we are for the challenges that lie ahead. Indeed, the less adversity we've endured, the more we'll be tested when it arrives.
Given so many of us have faced (and continue to face) adversity due to Covid, Paul's work on adversity may be more relevant than ever.
I have hope that no matter what challenges lie ahead, we'll discover ways to overcome and adapt. Paul's work offers guidance on how to navigate the rough waters of adversity to emerge victorious.
It's through overcoming adversity itself that we improve our AQ. So if adversity is the special sauce, why isn't it taught in school?
Paul's mission is to guide others through navigating the rough waters stirred by adversity and see the opportunity it provides to strengthen our resilience. From the AQ perspective, we learn to use adversity as fuel to change the trajectory of our lives.
Learning to turn our setbacks into challenges allows us to see the silver lining - that our adversities can be our advantage.
Adversity can be a fuel for strength - to the extent that we persevere, our resilience improves and we're better prepared to handle the challenges ahead.
Where we are today is a direct reflection of our ability to overcome (or not) our adversities in life.
we've experienced. We either muster the resilience or continue to endure.
Our ability to overcome the challenges we face determine where w Success can be measured by one's ability to face difficulties in life., including flexibility, perseverance, and the ability to face problems in their duties and work. People who can solve problems more effeciently can control the situation and have a higher chance of success (Phoolka and Kaur, 2012). Students require the adversity quotient in order to su
Well, measuring what people do with adversity is critical, but if you can't change it, what's the point? So our journey has been that. So now after working with all these thousands of companies and millions of lives and all this stuff, we can say definitively, we know how to measure. And strengthen people's aqs, which.
Everything, your health, your energy, your wellbeing, your optimism, your innovation, your productivity, performance, problem solving, , health in every facet. I mean, it goes on and on. So it's a real epicenter. So we each have an AQ number. We do, and, and so we. Assess people every day all over the world. You know, it's used in everything from tribal nations and educational institutions to the biggest companies and top leaders in the world.
And so we've learned a lot and we always do this independent analysis. We have a great statistician at, , Cal Pollu helps us out with some of that. And we look at this and see what does this correlate with and predict and how do you move? So we believe it's foundational to health, not just, you know, mental health as well and physical health.
We know it is. We've had independent studies show it's a radical predictor of that, even longevity, but it also, you know, affects the things businesses care about, like performance, productivity, sales numbers, energy engagement, you know, all the stuff that shows up every day. AQ is, is a fuel cell for everything.
We try to be in life. . It's such a humbling privilege to wake up and be that guy and get to serve this up to people and, and enrich their lives this way. Um, that, you know, we're more on fire than we've ever been. But that's what led me to the books was so first, the first book, which was about aq. Right?
That's the one that got an Oprah three times. And so that just busted out, you know? And what was it like to be on Oprah? Oh, it was, Just a pinch me moment. Each of 'em was, you know, it was so interesting. , at the same time I had this publicist who was trying to reach out to them. They reached out to us.
So we had two separate Oprah teams both say Yes at the same time. So that was two shows, separate shows, and then we got brought back. So, and she was wonderful. I, and she's all
about adversity, right? I mean, that hit
her. You know, it's so funny because it was just her and I on stage for the whole show doing the whole thing about the book.
There's this great moment and my publisher cried cuz she hugs the book and she goes, this is everything my life is about. She goes, this is everything about who I am. It's the first book I've read that describes how I became Oprah. I was like, wow. And the crowd's like, oh, you know, it was incredible. And she was so grounded and so authentic, and so real, and so lovely and gracious.
And there's really no
better person to endorse your
work than Oprah, obviously. Oh. And especially then, I mean, she sold more books than anybody on the planet. So that was a tsunami and, and, , you know, I had the privilege to be in all these, you know, It's top mediating all the big ones, cnn, Fox, abc. That basically
was what busted you open to the whole world.
Am I, is that a
safe bet? It really, really did. Okay. Yeah. And, and, , you probably wouldn't be
where you are today had you not received that fortunate.
You know, it's spark it. I, she was pivotal. But you know what's interesting about her? If you think about Oprah, her. In no way fits the corporate business model that you actually work on now.
So it had nothing to do with the way we made money or grew our business, but it did allow us to reach an awful lot of people that otherwise we wouldn't reach. Got it. Yeah. And it was an amazing experience. We brought our whole family there and it was just incredible.
So, and I, I do need to read the book, but we, we all face adversity at some point in our lives, right?
Mm-hmm. , I mean, you don't have to go through hard. Like people define as a very subjective term, right. Of what you would go through. Sure. It's not a matter of if, but when. Right. And then I would say even today that the amount of diversity the average American goes through is much less than it was 20 years ago, 30 years ago.
I mean, we're fairly privileged being in our environment that we live in today. We
are. So, you know, it's very interesting. Here's what the global research shows. So when we ask people. , you know how many difficulties, frustrations, problems, setbacks, issues, headaches. Mm-hmm. Tragedies, adversity is big or small.
You face in a typical day and they have to write 'em down and substantiate their answer. Okay? Over the past 35 years, that number has gone from three to 36, but as you are arguing, the nature of them has. . So we think of adversity with a capital A. Like, you know, someone you love died or your house got flooded and destroyed, or whatever it might be.
We're talking about, I mean, my definition is when you predict or experience. something bad happening to someone or something you care about. So that's kind of interesting, right? Because you think about it and you go, how much adversity do people face over something that hasn't even happened yet? Mm-hmm.
And that's where worry and the big today word anxiety comes in because you're actually experience, you're having an adverse reaction to something that hasn't happened, right? And the higher your AQ goes, the more anxiety and worry. Absolutely vaporize. You become what I call more response able, you become able to respond more optimally to more things more quickly, so then you don't worry about anything.
Then on the other side, there's the adversity that happens, actually happens, and what's adversity to you may or may not be to me. Right? You know, if you own 10 homes and you have some water damage, you're like, ah, that's an inconvenience. If it's your one and only home and you have seven kids living in that thing, right.
That, that's devastating. You know, and you, you gotta do something and it's urgent, right? So it's very personal and , that's part of where we disconnect, I think, is that we judge people based on what they're calling adversity. Just because it's not the same as ours doesn't mean it's not real for them.
Well, and I even think about people who've gone through the military like they faced oftentimes way more adversity, and I. , anyone who served in the military because I didn't go through that path at all. Yeah, and I think that it sets you up for life to be far more, better prepared, more
resilient, and more robust things to come
your way, because odds are you face.
Pretty extreme adversity at some point. Yeah. During
that, but maybe, so here's the interesting thing about that. You know, you've heard everyone hears about ptsd, right? So I've been collaborating with this guy out of Tufts on a project around ptg, which is called, and it's called Post-Traumatic Growth. So what no one knows is that when a unit, for example, in battle faces a trauma traumatic.
An equal number on average of people experience this post-traumatic growth where you end up getting galvanized and fortified by the adversity as those who get damaged by it. Interesting. So what we're trying to do is move the needle. But your point is a great one, Brian, because what happens is over the years, you know, I've certainly had plenty of, you know, not just special forces people, but people who've had military experience who come to me and say, you know, after I went through blah, blah, Right.
My, my calibration of adversity completely changed. Like there is no adversity. That was adversity. So you're fearless. Yeah. And they become undaunted. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Yeah. Unhinged, , , hopefully not unhinged, but undaunted. . Yeah. I mean, they,
they, they're not so easily thrown off. And I, yeah. You know, I even see with my own parents that, you know, my mom even said, my dad went through some adversity that he hadn't faced before, so he's an avid.
Mm. And he fell and broke his, broke like eight ribs. Wow. And brutal was forced he to stay in bed for a month, right? Mm-hmm. to heal. Mm-hmm. couldn't ride his bike. And this is somebody that has always been able to do whatever he wants to do. Mm-hmm. . And she said she's never seen him in this dark of a place before.
Yeah. And you would think she's like, you would think after 80 years on this planet you would know how to deal with things. But he still struggles with. , which scares the hell outta me because am I not even prepared? Like you would think every year life, you should have more of life prepared, figured out, right, of what's coming.
But you know, then you have these setbacks that you haven't faced before. You're just, you know, you wonder. . Yeah. You haven't got it figured out. I mean, none of us do. I, I think I, I read a quote recently about that. We're all, we're all winging it. Yeah, we are. It's a, and some of us are just a little more graceful at it than others, but nobody's got it figured out.
But
No, but if you can wing it with a, an uncommon degree of agility, adaptability, resilience, robustness, and grit, then your journey's gonna be a lot better. Okay. .
Well, I would strongly encourage people to check this book out, even if it was published years and years ago,
which I think that we have, oh, that was the first one.
But we've done several
things. Several more. Okay. Well, I think sometimes we're a little bit, um, predisposed to say, well, I want something that was recently published, or mm-hmm something new. But the reality is we accept, and I'm speaking for myself, not others, that we accept a lot of the things that were.
Without questioning, where are the source of the information came from. So true. And a lot of authors these days, I mean, there's no barriers to getting published. Anybody can publish anything they want. Yes. Changed, but they're put pontificating things that aren't rooted in evidence. Yeah. And in my ways that's very irresponsible because now you're kind of trying to tell people this is a blueprint for the way you should live your life.
Yeah. Based on my experience. But their experience is not gonna be the same as yours. Yeah. You have to do a lot of. to kind of get rid of that bias, like, and even you. So let's, let's, what I really wanted to dive into was you personally. Hmm. And let's talk a little bit about your journey and the fact that you know, you are here today.
And if I had asked you 10 years ago, are you where you want to be? Are, are you where you think you'd, you would've been? Or did you have even a clear vision 10 years ago, like sitting right here, right now? Amazing place. Mm-hmm. , was that a crystal clear idea that you had intention or was this some something that just continued to evolve and
Yes.
Well, both in that, I am weird that way. I envisioned this when I was a kid. . Okay. And, and so if you'd asked me 40 years ago, 30 years ago, 20 years ago, 10 years ago, the answers would've been really, really similar. Um, however, the, the way it manifests here, you know, the specifics of it that evolves, you know, so for example, we were living in a beautiful cattle ranch and we said, we're done.
This is our last house forever. And then we got, you know, values are meaningless until. Right until challenge. So we were confronted with the possibility of creating a family compound with our son and his family. My son, chase Martin, who's a, an attorney in town and Katie and the kids. And that meant selling that starting over, rebuilding from scratch basically, and reinvesting all that and, and what that means for the years of your work and everything without.
values are meaningless and still until challenged, right? Hmm. So we, we decided to do it. So this iteration was not the iteration we imagined a, a decade ago, but in general, yes. . Well, you've got your own little Yellowstone up here, . That's funny. That's what my son and I watch in the barn. That's really funny.
And, and we even have our, , own whiskey grit. Whiskey and grit tequila. So we, , yeah, we try to live the dream. Yeah, you
are. And, um, but. , were you ever like working in the real world? Were you always independent? Yes. , both. I mean, did you work for companies?
Yes, I did, , when I was real young and, , I, I worked for some different companies and one of the ones I worked with in some depth was Honeywell back in the day.
And then I worked with And what was your capacity there? , I was actually involved in their management development program, so I was helping them, you know, de develop and deliver the curriculum for grow, growing tomorrow's. and, , it was very simulating to. So
you've been fascinated with leadership since college.
It sounds like that's really you.
Oh yeah. Always have. It's such an important lever. Mm-hmm. and, you know, gone wrong. It's really bad. Mm-hmm. and gone. Right. It's, it's the path to the future. So without it, we can't get there. So I, I'm pretty obsessed with it. Yes. So
you're inspired to grow the leaders and make better leaders out of the companies that you work with.
I mean, you're really in. Driven to make sure there's not toxic work environments that companies are mm-hmm. meeting the needs of their shareholders, but that really everyone wants to come to work
there. Yeah. You know, there, I, I, how do you
find the right
people for those companies? Yeah. There's so much ground to gain, right.
And look how much it's changed. But I really do believe, you know, it's worth striving to create an optimal workplace where people really, genuinely can thrive and bring their best and be their best and be on a path to be what we call ever. So if the people in the company or the organization are on a path to be a little bit better every day over time, the compound interest on that is immense and everyone.
So I think, you know, I, as a kid, my father was a corporate guy who came out from, you know, depression baby, came from nothing. First in his family to get an education, everything else. And he took me around on some of his trips and every time I went in one of these companies, you know, traditional company, it, it was this soul sucking zombie land.
And I just, it hurt my heart. I was just like, how can. Invest the prime energy hours of their life into hiding them. True sell. Yeah. They don't even, yeah. Being here and doing this. Right. Whatever this is. So I just thought there's gotta be a way to inject some real life into those hours of our lives and make it meaningful, you know?
So I, from the top down all the way down. Yeah. And, and so we work with, you know, very frontline and sometimes very disadvantage. Populations and people and sometimes we're working with the elite of the elite who have the power and the money to make real change. So
you've gone really down the corporate training path, corporate consultant.
Were you ever going looking at like the motivational speaker, you know, Tommy, Tony Robbins, type of Yeah. It's world, you know, it's test those
waters or, well, I get asked to do that a lot and I've done some really big. Big keynotes, Publix. Yeah. So I, people sometimes say, oh, you're a motivational speaker, whatever.
And I kind of, eh mm-hmm. . And, and the reason is, I think traditionally those people have been kind of hacking at the leaves and they kind of serve up a cup of coffee that pumps you up and makes you feel right. Significantly better for a little period of time. And then you need another jolt. And so I, I just care.
So much getting to the core, um, that I, and I don't want it to be personality based or ego based. Um, the only reason my pictures on that last book is my dad just kept saying to me, you gotta put your face on the book. So, you know, thank God before he passed, I finally did. But I, I don't even want it to be about me at all.
I just want it to be about the impact. That's all I care about.
Yeah. No, I, I get that and aq. Really you, it's much bigger than you and I. Yeah. I often see the common thread of, you know, the happiest and most successful people is they found a purpose greater than themselves. Yes. And you, you've stuck stay true to that adversity piece after all these years.
Oh. I mean, that's kind of amazing. There's probably nobody on the planet who knows more about adversity than you do . I mean, he's given, they've dived into one topic with such depth and you. Find new things.
Oh, every day. It's stunning. We get, you know, conversations from, like, today was Iran and, and Saudi Arabia and, and Philippines and China and, and, , south, south America.
I mean, just conversations and findings with our work every day, all over the world. So we're always learning and evolving it. And, and you know, to me this. , like the, like I said, it's the bedrock. So, and it's timeless. I mean, it's so funny Brian, cuz like, Today, one of the big companies, you know, really well called me and they were like, you know, this is like the hottest new thing.
We're so excited to introduce it to our people. And I'm, we're giggling going. Yeah, hottest new thing for 36 years, you know? Oh yeah, my God. And, , but, um, it's timeless and universal. It applies. We've learned that this applies all across all cultures deeply. I mean, that AQ book, that first one that was on, two years ago was a top 10.
It got re-released top 10 book in China. Who knew? Wow. And I mean, in China, you know, and they, so they released it in Chinese and great. It's still connecting with people. Yeah. And same with grit than ever. Yeah. So it's, and, and I think it's more relevant than ever in, at least in new ways. So, um, and we are
facing in a lot of ways with Covid.
the uncertainty. Yeah. I honestly, it does feel like there's a lot less to be confident about. And now they're talking about going to war with China. I mean, that could just like rock everybody's world. If you just think about just playing that out is, is scares the hell out of like, if this starts to become the narrative, this is a scary world.
Like Right.
And so, so we need, we need to be able to immunize ourselves against learned helplessness cuz that will decimate. Whether it's climate change, war, the uncertainties of the world, the economy, if we can't literally immunize ourselves where it's virtually impossible to go there, to learn to helplessness and and to be able to sustain some degree of traction and hope, then we have no chance.
So I think AQ is elemental to our whole path forward and that's why I did the TED talk about AQ related to climate change. Cuz I thought let's just take the big one. Hmm. , well why not? Let's talk about
that. I've been, for the last 10 year, no, last 15 years, I've been, um, studying meditation and I'm really into yoga.
And so Good for you. I often, and mind mindfulness and MBSR and mm-hmm. , I, I've often told people. , I feel like mindfulness or, um, I dunno, what was I calling? I guess mbsr, if it prepare, prepares you for the adversities you're gonna face in life. Mm-hmm. . And ultimately the greatest adversity you're gonna face, which is your own demise, right?
Mm-hmm. . And would you say that you know, you're fully prepared for the greatest adversity you will ever face? I mean, that is the ult, right? There's no greater adversity than. , , mortality. Right.
I, I might argue it would be the demise of the person you love most Hmm. But, , I, I would, I would gladly experience mine at the salvation of hers.
Wow. So selfless.
But, um, I don't know. , is it though, because, you know, am I really just preserving my own pain of that loss, you know, But yeah, I care that much. And so the point is to the best that you can, you never know till you're there, but to the best that you can, you really can pree equip yourself for this journey and the inevitabilities of it and everything like that.
And I do believe that as a almost, you know, it's almost like the human operating system, right? There's a point where as more and more is demanded of it. Like today, , you have to. and in order to run smoother, better, faster, and, and have everything operate well. And I think that's what AQ is about. I think we as a, as a species need to, , upgrade our AQ to be able to tackle and, and ideally,
You know, it's, we talk so much about coping. As a matter of fact, the first over show that killed me, you know, the producer takes me in the room, you know, and sits me down. He's like, are you that coping with adversity guy? And I wanted to go, not really, because you know what coping looks like. Like, have you ever seen young parents with babies get on an airplane?
I mean, they're, they're coping. , does that look like fun to you? You know, and it's, well, they've given up. Yeah. Right. Or else they, yeah. Or also having three drinks and giving up. But, um, I believe that we've seen, you know, as we measure aq, that at the top level, something different happens. We possess the capacity as a species to harness adversity.
And the definition's gnarly because what it means is that you literally can look back on whatever that adversity. and say, thank God that happened because if it hadn't, we'd never be who or where we are today. That is the test. And so if, if you can take, if you can do that and we teach people how we really do, um, then adversity becomes a fuel cell.
without it, life's boring. Hmm. You know, I give people candy, like I do this thing when I do my keynotes sometimes and stuff, and I'll give my candy and say, okay, be very careful. This looks like candy, but it's really the adversity pill, you know? And I'll say, if you touch it to your tongue, it's so potent.
It will immunize you against all adversity for the rest of your life. And at which point, usually two people jam it in their mouths and go, thank you. You know? But most people just, I go, would you take it? And the answer is always, inevitably, invariably no. I go, what? You can remove all adversity. And you're saying you, you want it, you prefer it.
And they go, yeah, you would, life would be boring. You wouldn't learn. You wouldn't grow. So isn't it interesting how much we invest in comfort and convenience when really what we're saying is that one of the richest ORs of our journey is adversity. . So it, it, yeah, it's pretty deep spiritual stuff.
It gets there, it really does.
Corporate, , strategy to increase
profit, you're no carpet. Stuff's a covert operation man, because I use the corporate, you know, well-funded corporate structure called corporate learning or events or whatever it is to basically mess with people's lives in a good way. Hmm. In a way that happens to benefit the business.
So they ask. . So that's the deal. That's what we care about making. Good. And
there's some bottom line
results. Yeah, it, I mean, you've gotta have the evidence. It's gotta produce real results and it's gotta really enrich people's lives. And if it does, then you're doing good work. Well,
and evidence is that you've been able to continue doing this work.
yeah. Lucky
us this many years. I mean, we've, we've grown this business 36 straight years doing this. It's just, wow. Insane. And tell me a
little bit more about the business, like the team and how that's structured.
I'm so, I'm glad you asked, cuz you know, none of this exists without them and you know, like Dr.
Jeff Thompson here in town, he's. Been with me for 26 years and we have an office downtown, slug, and I have a core team down there, Allison and Jeff and Blake and Katie and those guys. And they, they keep it all glued together. And then we have an expanded team. We have a team in China, we have a team in Southeast Asia.
We have teams in other parts of the world who bring our work to those geographies. In the ways that are culturally appropriate that we could never do. And I like a Dave Ramsey
model it sounds like. ,
a little bit. Yeah. You know, we, we don't franchise, we don't do that. Okay. Um, we invest very deeply in, in having them be ma real masters at.
What we do. And then I spend a lot of time with them to make sure we're, you know, bringing our best and upgrading and updating. But it's very gratifying, you know, and I've gone there a lot. Um, I was in China just pre covid. There's a story with that. But, um, it, , is incredible to be able to see this work being brought to all over, all over the world.
So our expanded team's just a blessing.
Well, you've successfully duplicated it yourself, it sounds like that's the dream that everyone
has. Yeah. Well, you know, it's, , just, you know, the old rule, right? Surround yourself with people smarter than you and you can't go wrong. And that's kind of what we've done.
Are you still the core sales guy? The one that goes out
and, , you know, it's funny, I, I hate to say this, but I don't chase stuff. You know, I, I receive stuff and so we. So many requests for what we do. , we've never had a business development person. We've never had a salesperson. We, we, we violate every rule and we've grown every year just by 10 trying of growth, man.
Yeah. Yeah. It's the best kind. And we just try to word mouth. Good. Good work leads to good work. Yeah, it does. . Do
people leave and go to other companies?
They do. They bring you in? Yeah. Get back. And if you live long enough, someone will call you 15 years later and go, that was the most impactful thing. Can you do work with Mike?
You know our guy? And you're like, sure, come on. Let's go. So, and that happened today. I mean, a guy in the uk, you know, um, so it's, it's so. I mean, pinch me. Got it. I'm, I mean, honestly, if you wanna wanna, , epik, just put luckiest bastard I've ever met and just put, I just ask that, what would it say on your tombstone,
And just put that on my tombstone. And you feel that every day? That would be it. I, I really do. I mean, I can't even believe I get to do what I do and, and be who I am and are tumbling because it forces your own feet to the fire to. You don't practice what you preach and, and to get better and better at it and, and try to, so you use your, what
you teach in your own company to really to prove the pudding.
Yeah. Basically eat your own dog food. Right. Oh, there
have been, I mean, with great economic meltdown that we had, you know, back when, and, and this has been multiple times. Is that the only 2008? Yeah. We literally took out our highest octane tool, sat at this table and said, if we can't use our own tools to not survive, not overcome, but to literally harness this adversity.
So we look back and say, thank God 2008 happened. We'd never be where we are without it. If we can't do that, we're frauds. Let's go. Wow. And we did it. Wow. And we've done it over and over and it's just cuz my team's so good. They get it. And they're committed. Yeah. Well,
but like you said, you've got the secret sauce.
you offer up to other companies as well, but you've proved it in-house first. You're basically like that. Chef , you
affected the recipe. Yeah. You get to, yeah. Survive your own cooking.
Yeah. And you know it's good enough, but it's true. No, I think that's great. When you can, you have a business that supports itself in a lot of ways by just running it through and you sort of have these principles.
It sounds like you've also developed some really core principles within your own business. You've stayed the value to sort of stay on
course. Yeah, we just measure ourselves on the four Ps we always have, which are purpose people, profit and planet. So, How many lives? Who are we impacting? How many, but also are they people who have, you know, influence and leverage and in fact, others.
Hmm. So we analyze the people we're affecting and then we look at, you know, the purpose meter, which is, are we having that deep and enduring impact? Is it deep enough and enduring enough? And are we really hitting bedrock and can we do better? And are we. People, you know, in a way that matters. You know, like we've been reached lately.
, some of the, you know, tribal nations have reached out to us and they have some real challenges, you know, and as do many populations and being able to apply our work to help them. What are tribal nations? Tribal. Oh, tribal nations. Tribal nations. Native populations from the us mm-hmm. . And then, um, then profit unapologetically.
You know, we need, wanna generate a healthy profit. Fund the flywheel and keep it going and pay everybody well and all that. Have it be a rewarding environment. And then of course the planet, we wanna have a net positive effect. Have our existence, you know, have mother a smile that we're
here. So this is a crazy question to ask you, but h have you.
through all those years suffered any major setbacks. You
know, it's really funny, , there we have two jokes, but you know, one, one truth is the higher your AQ goes, when someone says to you, what have been the biggest adversities you faced? You come up blank cuz you don't even think of 'em that way. , you like deal when move on, you deal and move on.
And my grandmother was a great example of that. She had faced a series of just breathtaking adversities and someone at k client of mine, cuz I had told her a story, went there and asked her that question in person and she said, oh, not much. I've been so blessed. And then they said, what have been your biggest challenges?
And she went, and then boom, boom, boom, boom. So that, that's kind of how you process it when your AQ goes up, not Pollyanna. It's just, it's real. And then the other joke that we have is my wife who. 35 years ago was diagnosed with ms. She's had her face and, and body torn apart with skin cancer surgeries.
She's had two laboral tear surgeries in her hips. She's had, I mean, and, and the stuff she grew up with and, you know, substance abuse in her family and all kinds of issues that go on and on and on and on. And so every, she just goes. Why is it always me, like I'm your poster child? So every time someone, you know, in some of the big interviews we've had with some of the big publications, they go, tell us about your biggest adversities.
I'm like, have you met my wife? Wow. Yeah. She's the poster child of everything we teach. I mean, look at her. She, here's a person who 35 years later has never had one, any kind of treatment or anything. It's not even on her medical records. She has no visible symptoms of MS whatsoever. She teaches bootcamp to a bunch of dudes, two mornings a week, kicks their Tushes, teaches bar class.
She's a professor at Cal Poly Award-winning professor, author in her own right life force on steroids, leads, dream makers, that charity group for terminally ill adults getting their final wish in our community and all that kind of stuff. She's a medical impossibility. She doesn't exist in the medical litera.
Oh, and if you asked her like, so Rhonda, and you know, she's like the most effervescent person you could meet. If you said and asked Tom, you know, he'll tell you if you said so. How do you do this? She would say, every night when I put my head on that pillow and every night before I spring outta bed, which is my adversity, cuz that's 4:00 AM she just applies what we teach.
Wow. It changes.
Well, I like what you said there. You didn't have, you haven't had any setbacks, you've had challenges. Yeah. To
overcome. That's life. Yeah. I mean, that is the substance of life. And if you don't, maybe you're not trying hard enough. Mm-hmm. , maybe you're not going bold enough, you know? Is your goal really to have a tombstone that says he was comfortable?
So if somebody's going through adversity right now mm-hmm. , this is the time for them to double. And understand this better and realize that you can actually turn this into an advantage. You really can. Like you, either you can go in a downward spiral, which I think a lot of us do. Yep. Or you can use this to catapult yourself into becoming something great that.
will become better because of it. Yeah.
And you know, there really are concrete ways to minimize, minimize the downside and maximize the upside. We teach people about their core, the four core ingredients or core elements of aq and that's what we measure and we teach them how to strengthen their core response.
Do they come
to you when they're in the midst of adversity? Do you like looking
for me for answers? Sometimes, but sometimes. You know, it's so funny, Brian, cuz. You know, when, like tech companies, right? Businesses and a lot, we deal with hundreds of thousands of entrepreneurs too, and I coach a lot of 'em. Um, when times are tough and constrained or you hear the R word recession or whatever it is, they, they need us because they're people are struggling, right?
And they trying to get, do more with less big star culture. It's, and how do you Yeah. And how do you, you know, make it happen in spite. The adversity we face on the other side when things are growing bonkers and they're like bare, you know, just besieged with opportunity, then you have to be equipped with this to be able to take on and do, you know, perform miracles at, at a, at a level of growth and pace and everything else that you otherwise can't imagine.
So whatever's going on it, it's pretty. . Mm. And so we just kind of customize it to whatever that is,
but try to get ahead of it if you can't. Sounds like, yeah. If they come to you and things are already broken. Mm-hmm. , it's a hard, is it a, is a harder hill to climb?
, yes and no. No. In terms of, boy, if we got their attention.
Okay. I mean, relevance is don instantaneous. You need to, you don't have to explain, you have the A word
instantly. Yeah. Yeah. They say, oh yeah, we've got some serious adversity. You can't, we're gonna put you to
test. Well, and you know what's, what's so been also very humbling and, and really kind of like, is, we've had big companies like at and t and DirecTV and others who have said in their moments of adversity, thus turn to their people and say, we have stripped away all corporate learning from our budget , except one thing aq.
Wow. , and this is the one thing we're gonna use to equip ourselves to make this happen, no matter how bad it gets. Hmm. And then we get brought in and you're kinda like, whoa. Well, okay, it's game time. Let's go. Yeah. You know? Um,
got some skeptics to overcome, I'm sure.
Oh, I love 'em. I love 'em because, you know, it's so evidence based that all you gotta do is share like the real evidence and, and the biggest cynic.
Just kind of go, well, it's about time now. We got something we can, you know, that's actually got some proof to it. Thank you. You know, so I love those people. They've become some of our greatest advocates. Well,
Dr. Stoltz, is there anything else you want Paul
to share? Paul? Um, kind of, no. I mean, it's just been delightful talking to you about it, and obviously as you can tell, I, I can talk about it forever and I'm, I'm hugely passionate about it.
I'm passion and it's, yeah.
I've been reading this thing about difference between passions and virtue, but you've definitely. Figured out a way to turn this passion into something that fuels you every day. I do. It's not a, it's not
a handicap. Well, you know, I, I talk a lot, I do a very select amount of executive coaching.
One of the most gratifying pivots I made with Covid is I finally, instead of just doing it for these big, you know, billionaire CEOs out there in the world, I decide to do it locally. . And so I saddled up next to some of the, you know, prominent business leaders from the companies we know here. Cool. And I've been helping them and it's been so gratifying.
But, you know, I really do believe we can put ourselves on a path toward an optimal life. And that, you know, this is one way to equip us to get there. And so, you know, having the chance to do anything to help people do that, come on, you know, stay the course as good as it.